0:02

[Music]

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thank you

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[Music]

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thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's Wilderness join us

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as we dive into the deep end of the unexplainable and try to piece together what happened you are listening to

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locations unknown [Music]

1:05

thank you [Music]

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foreign

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what's up everybody and welcome back to another episode of locations unknown I'm

1:34

your co-host Joe E Rado and with me is always as a guy who if he owned a store would never charge too much for eggs

1:39

Mike Vander Bogart uh thank you Joe and thank you once again to all of our loyal listeners for tuning in just a couple of

1:45

quick announcements here first I'd like to thank a couple new patreon supporters so uh Sarah

1:53

uh hemorrhich and Carl Parker um kind of sad there's only two so if

2:00

you're listening and want to help the show out it's probably Sarah helmrick helmrick there we go already starting off on a good foot

2:07

that's a good one yeah hammerich um so if also we've got a phone number you can call the show yeah Sarah call

2:13

that number and let Mike know how you feel about uh him saying your name hammering uh if you like us hate us have

2:19

episode suggestions anything you've uh you had a long day at the bar and just want to talk uh call a

2:27

208-391-6913 just remember anything you say on the voicemail could and probably will be used on a future

2:35

show so I think the only thing we've ever bleeped out was like personal information address yeah phone number

2:40

exactly yeah so everything else is fair game everything else is fair game um you can also support us on many different

2:47

platforms if you like the show and want to help us out obviously on patreon we have YouTube memberships we have premium

2:53

subscriptions on Apple we've got a store on our website and on Facebook where you can buy some swag uh so and you know

3:01

what if you you're a short on cash but you still really like the show just tell everyone you know about the show and go

3:07

to the different platforms and like the videos and um you know share videos with friends

3:13

and that helps us uh work our way up the algorithms oh yeah that's just as valuable yeah and finally uh this is

3:19

kind of a new little mini series that we're gonna try out uh in the future it won't be every episode in a row but

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there's a lot of cases out there that um are too short to really do a full

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episode on but they're still important to get the cases out there so from time

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to time we're going to do a Cold Case episode on a different Park So today we're covering a couple cases from Grand

3:43

Canyon National Park which we've actually never done a case you're just spoiling the beans yes sorry spilling

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the beans boiling the beans so um so yeah so from time to time we'll be

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doing uh I think we're calling it National Park gold cases yeah you're just spilling all the beans spilling all the beans we'll cut we'll edit all of

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that out we won't no we won't um so other than that I I don't have any other updates you Joe no

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all right everybody let's gear up and get out to explore locations unknown [Music]

4:29

with over 52 million Acres the U.S national Park system is home to some of the most breathtaking natural features

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on the planet tens of millions enjoy the parks every year While most visits end with the

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amazing memories many have not the official NPS Cold Case count stands

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at 29. however independent researchers estimate between 1100 and 1600 unsolved

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disappearances originate in our parks join us this week as we begin the

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mini-series National Park cold cases

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[Music]

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[Music] so we're going to start this first series off with the Grand Canyon

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National Park which I spoiled yep that's fine I'm just giving you crap

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um I've never been here of you I've flown over it I have I I've seen it from

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the parking lot like near one of the highways as we were driving through so

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you like made a change like we got a pullover and at least stop and look at it yeah so I've been out of a car and

5:47

have stared at it it's really cool so you've kind of been there I've been there I've never hiked it it looks

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really cool you can I think you can do it on Horseback yeah which sounds really fun that's and sounds terrifying yeah if

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you're going if you're going up and down the wall oh yeah no thanks but I'm doing anything those horses know what they're

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doing I bet not no horses have ever fallen off no ever

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so yeah it's looked pretty from an airplane oh yeah that's I've seen it mostly when flying to Vegas so Grand

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Canyon National Park is 1902 square miles so it's larger than the state of

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Rhode Island it's big it's big it is in Arizona it was established on February

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26 1919. this park sees roughly 4.5 million

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visitors per year that's the 13th in the country and those are of as of uh 2021.

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uh habitation history in the area people have been a part of the grand Canyon's history and culture from 10 000 years

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ago through today 11 contemporary tribes have cultivated links in the area cultural cultural I said I don't want to

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say cultivated and their oral histories are rich with references to the creation of the great Chasm and torrential River

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some of the tribes are the Hopi the Navajo Nation the Pueblo of Zuni and the

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yavapi Apache Nation from the 16th century on tribes familiar

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with the region were guides and informants for the Spanish and later euro-american explorers

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so let's talk about some interesting facts uh the Hopi tribe considers the Grand Canyon a gateway to the afterlife

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the tribe has always placed great spiritual significance on the site they believe that upon death a person passes

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Westward through a place of emergence located Upstream from the Confluence of the Colorado and little Colorado rivers

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in the canyon on his or her journey to the afterlife temperatures vary greatly within the

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Canyon from the rim of the canyon to its lowest point the temperature can change from more than 25 degrees the depths of

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the gorge are notoriously hot during the summer while the north rim is often below freezing in winter

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in 1909 the canyon was the site of a giant hoax the Arizona Gazette reported

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that archaeologists had discovered traces of ancient Tibetan and Egyptian civilization in an underground tunnel

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into the canyon the Smithsonian denied the entire story claiming that they had no knowledge of the archaeologist to

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this day conspiracy theorists still believe this may have been a government cover-up I had never heard of that so

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even if there were ancient traces of people there yeah they can't be Tibetan

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or Egyptian because they're not in Tibet or Egypt so they'd be Native Americans

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yeah so interesting little unless they're claiming like Egyptians came to the

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canyon and settled I don't know but then they would be I don't know Egyptian Americans we'll have to cover that on a

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uh you know what I believe with those theorists I think it's a government cover-up yeah all right despite being

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the most famous the Grand Canyon is not actually the world's deepest canyon depending on how the depth of the gorge

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is measured the Arizona Landmark actually comes behind the kotusi canyon in Peru in the Kali

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gandaki gorge in Nepal ah the Kali gundaki gorge in Nepal

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the most dangerous animal in the canyon is actually the rock squirrel this is like uh

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what's that movie with the rabbit uh Monty Python search for the Holy Grail oh the rabbit that I haven't seen

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that movie in so long when they're trying to get into the cave and it started by a little white rabbit like

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lunges through the air and bites your head off even though the Gila monster and bighorn

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sheep also live there visitors are most often bitten by The Humble squirrel so so yeah it's it's by like sheer attack

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volume yeah it's by like the most bites of an animal okay all right they're

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obviously not dangerous yeah they're like it's not killing people unless maybe one of them had like rabies or

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something which is causing the most injuries yeah uh no one is completely sure about the age of the Grand Canyon

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it was long believed that the Colorado River started carving out the candid six million years ago but recent Studies have shown this process may have

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actually started 70 million years ago quite the difference and I know a couple guys that think it happened much more

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rapidly at the offset of the Ice Age yeah I think uh it sounds interesting I

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think it's out for debate well I'm sure they'll eventually settle that I'm sure they won't but I love speculating about

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it yeah uh the Canon is full of fossils though none of them are from dinosaurs

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since the canning layers were formed long before dinosaurs walked the Earth it is however home to fossils of ancient

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marine animals that date back 1.2 billion years uh it's home to a huge mystery the Grand

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Canyon displays a geological phenomenon known as the great unconformity this

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phenomenon refers to the fact that 250 million year old rock layers lie directly against 1.2 billion year old

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rock layers no one knows what happened to the hundreds of millions of years missing layers I know a couple guys that

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have a theory that actually explains that pretty well like their theory is that a crapload of water carved it

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really rapidly yeah so that would make sense where it just dug a hole deep so you get rock mixed up so I mean that

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kind of goes towards uh Graham Hancock and or it's Ellen I don't know Allen and Graham yeah they're much ostracized by

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the archaeologist Community but they have a great show on Netflix I have no clue but I love the the speculation

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I love thinking about stuff it makes my brain happy makes your brain happy uh did you know this Mike fewer people have

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successfully completed a continuous lengthwise hike through the Grand Canyon then have walked on the moon I didn't

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know this before researching this case ah you're supposed to play along and then that's assuming that we

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actually walked on the moon oh boy that one I'm not going with that one I

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definitely believe we've been there because you can see the landing site with telescopes uh the air at the Grand Canyon is among

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the cleanest air in the United States that one is crazy to me yeah because it's such a desert arid area I wonder

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why that is I wonder if it's like when you go in the gorge particulate doesn't get down there or something that or

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maybe it's just in like a an area where it gets it's so far away from people it's just far away from everything yeah

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I don't know I really don't know uh the Federal Aviation Administration or FAA

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exists because of the Grand Canyon this I didn't know in the 1950s commercial airplanes often took detours over the

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park to give passengers a look at the Marvel in 1956 however two of these planes tragically collided the crash had

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no survivors sorry for the little giggle there but that makes sense leading to the federal government creating the FAA

12:40

oh so they had an accident of two people trying to check it out and crashing into each other and that is you know it's

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kind of interesting you think about and going on a little tangent here you know flying commercially is so incredibly

12:53

safe yeah and when you go go to an airport and you go flying you realize like all the procedures that you see in

12:59

place and everything that's going on Six Sigma quality came from right yeah but to think like you know before 1956 56

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there wasn't even a a body that

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yeah it's relatively new and it's I always just marvel at just how safe it

13:22

is and how if you think about how many planes and Commercial jets are in the air at any given point yeah I mean tens

13:30

of thousands well drinking and driving was not illegal up until like the last 40 years did you know that yeah you

13:37

could used to be able to drink with like a beer open in your car yeah like you could be actively drinking and they'd just be like hey stop it which I mean is

13:43

still legal on a boat you can't be in the driver's seat but you can obviously have open the open beer and a boat oh

13:49

yeah the drivers could be drinking back in the day they're just like hey you're too drunk go home yeah right

13:54

oh definitely not advocating for that but it's just crazy how quick things change

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and how things used to be acceptable that are not like randomly flying planes yeah

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all right so we're going to get into the uh the description of features of the Grand Cayman our friends over at the cope and climate classification system

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say that the Grand Canyon actually has five climate zones cold semi-arid humid

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continental dry cool summer humid continental dry warm summer warm summer

14:23

Mediterranean and hot summer Mediterranean was that was that a few summer hot girl summer hot girl summer I

14:29

think you and I are going to have a hot girl summer with some of the cool news that's coming up there we're going to tease a little bit hot girl summer right

14:35

it starts in April that's kind of like kicking it off not sure what a hot girl summer is I don't know either but it

14:40

sounds like it's a fun thing and we're gonna have a fun summer so we're gonna have a hot girl summer yeah we're gonna have people call people call the number

14:47

and tell us if we're using it inappropriately and uh if we shouldn't be yeah well I know we shouldn't be but

14:53

if it's bad we sound like two old guys Summers I'm almost 40. I'm 37. so I am

15:00

almost a completely old guy you're like 10 at heart I'm just you just alienated so much of our by saying hot girl summer

15:07

then calling almost 40 old we're done for we're done this is the

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last one you're not gonna hear the announcement because everyone's leaving so summer temperatures in the south rim at 7 000 feet are relatively Pleasant

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with high temperatures generally in the 80s and uh temperature is typically warming to

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over 100 degrees at the river near Phantom Ranch at 2 400 feet

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I'm guessing that's like that's the beginning of the lowest point in the park okay uh the north rim summer high

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temperatures are typically cooler than the south rim due to increased elevation at 8 000 feet with highs typically

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ranging in the 70s that sounds nice overnight lows can still drop near to below freezing occasionally on the north

15:49

rim although typically low temperatures range from the 40s and 50s at the south rim to 60s and 70s at Phantom Ranch

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summer thunderstorms frequently occur during July and August and early September with the potential for

16:02

torrential rains that would be real and frequent lightning sudden flash Lodge that'd be cool to be in a storm at the

16:07

Grand Canyon yeah I bet that's just stunning so like and not be like down oh yeah not not in a flash flood zone but

16:13

like maybe on the rim camping watching it coming in your car yeah or that

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uh winter conditions on the south rim can be extreme be prepared for snowy icy roads and trails and possible road

16:26

closures winter weather typically begins by November and becomes well entrenched by December and January with frequent to

16:33

light to moderate snows and increasingly cold weather low temperatures are genuinely in the teens among the rim

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however afternoon high temperatures still average in the 40s due to the amount of sunshine the area receives

16:45

that's crazy they'll get like snow storms then it'll all melt then it'll happen again uh the terrain the land is semi-arid and

16:53

consists of raised plateaus and structural basins typical of the southwestern United States if anyone's

16:59

flown anywhere over there it all looks the same yeah Drainage Systems have cut

17:04

deeply through the rock forming numerous steep walled Canyons forests are found

17:09

at higher elevations while the lower elevations are made up of a series of desert basins the highest point in the

17:15

park is point Imperial on the north rim at 8803 feet the lowest point in the park

17:22

is Phantom Ranch on the bottom of the canyon floor at 2 400 feet so what are the types of dangers we see

17:28

here besides the rock squirrel we have bighorn sheep black bears which are very

17:35

rare according to National Park Service some black bears can be found in the Conifer Forest around the north rim uh

17:41

odds are you will not see them yes very rare and they're definitely not Grizzlies no mountain lions mule deer

17:47

Grand Canyon bats there are bison on the north rim there are elk California

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Condors bald eagles six species of rattlesnake scorpions gila monsters and

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the treacherous Rock squirrel uh tips for safely hiking the Grand Canyon so go

18:03

ahead oh real quickly so these are tips you know I'm kind of tailored for Grand

18:09

Canyon National Park but these would be good tips for really hiking just hiking in general anywhere in probably the

18:15

Southwest um so Jay just wanted to make that point a little postie note yeah all right know

18:24

your abilities and choose an appropriate hike this this goes everywhere yeah you will be hiking at high elevation in hot

18:30

dry desert conditions with a steep climb out at the end of the day everyone who hikes in the canyon for first time

18:36

reports that it was more difficult than they expected be conservative in planning your hike yeah especially if your beginning is downhill yeah you're

18:43

like oh right this is great uphill is terrible yeah it's like 10 times longer than going downhill yep yeah I think

18:49

when we went to Colorado we did a mountain it took us two and a

18:55

half days to get up it and four hours to get down it yeah you know what because you're going it was so steep in some

19:00

areas you're moving at like four to six times the pace it probably took me a good four or five hiking trips before I

19:07

started getting better about how long I thought something would take me yeah by looking at a map and like elevation gain

19:13

and because your first time if you're new at new to hiking and you get out there you'll be like oh I could do five miles and yeah you think about five

19:20

miles in a city on flat roads yeah versus five five miles of terrain at altitude with like 3 000 feet of

19:27

elevation gain you got 40 pounds on your back and it's 100 degrees out yeah well you shouldn't have 40 pounds because

19:34

number two tip is be lightweight travel as light as possible I always end

19:39

up bringing camera equipment which weighs the most yeah I always pack too much yeah I'm guilty of this one yeah

19:45

usually though what we over pack is like safety related things yeah it's stuff that like the chances of happening are

19:52

super low which I could probably not bring it but the one time I don't bring it it would happen and because we do

19:57

this show on the little paranoid so I'm like I guess I'll bring an extra two pounds of this stuff that I've never

20:02

used I bring like more paracord than you would ever need I don't think I've ever actually used it yeah at least we

20:09

integrate it in our stuff though yeah like I replace handles with paracord yep and stuff like that but um yeah extra

20:16

food then I'd need an extra all like it's mostly for me it's camera like if I bring my drone that's a pain yeah uh so

20:23

the heaviest item in your backpack should be food and water should be uh use hiking sticks to take stress off

20:28

your legs uh the the jury's out on that and that's funny that that's a contention on whether hiking poles are

20:34

better or worse I think they're better I think it depends on where you're hiking yeah they

20:39

get in the way but they help keep you stable and they do keep like allow your arms to take some of the brunt instead

20:45

of your knees I do like if I know I'm gonna be hiking on a real like ledge with a steep drop off I do like having

20:52

one on the truck put on the ledge slide yeah to just kind of be the extra little guard against start losing your balance

20:58

yeah I mean that's just my personal preference no I I 100 agree with you also when I'm

21:04

hiking downhill that's when you lose your toenails yeah whenever I hike downhill with poles and allow them to

21:09

take a lot of the brunt I don't lose toenails yeah I've noticed that every time I hike downhill without a pole I'll lose at least a time I always lose

21:15

toenails whenever I do with the poles because I push them in as I go and take the absorb the shock it helps so

21:21

that's just one non-scientific study yeah of just me saying when I use them

21:27

yeah when I use hiking poles I keep my toenails when I don't I lose my toenails

21:33

uh we're well fitting and broken in hiking boots that's a huge one if your shoes are brand new like wear them to

21:40

work for a couple weeks before you get on a hiking trip make sure I remember working in uh Shay our first hiking trip in Utah he brought his army boots that

21:47

he had never worn before yeah biggest mistake of his life he had a he had a blister the size of his foot on the

21:53

bottom of his foot yeah from it yeah and that will ruin your trip yeah 100 ruin your trip for him um bring a small

21:59

lightweight flashlight and a change of batteries and a bulb uh wear sunscreen sunglasses and a hat bring a map compass

22:06

signal mirror or whistle first aid kit and water purification tablets in case you run out of water keep in mind that

22:13

all trash including biodegradable needs to be carried out of the canyon leave no Trace that means a human waste yes

22:20

so yep they usually have bags for you to uh defecate in that also smell like

22:25

lemons like uh bags for like a dog yeah you're walking they're a little bit more remember the ones we got when we did the

22:32

um top down in Zion yeah those were those it made it was everything smelled like lemon when you're done and honestly

22:38

I mean not to get into too much detail but get into the detail I usually don't

22:44

when you're up at elevation you're working that hard you don't usually have to go to the bathroom that much yeah

22:49

like number two at least you're not getting enough calories yeah your body's just using it all yep uh if you can talk

22:55

while you're walking you're going the right speed when you huff and puff your body is not getting enough oxygen

23:00

walking at a pace allows you to be able to walk and talk means that your legs and body are getting the oxygen needed

23:05

for to function efficiently that's important point because you can a lot of times the urge is when you start hiking

23:11

to like power walk through the hike but you really need to just go at a steady Pace it's think of it as a marathon not a

23:18

Sprint if you plan right you should have enough time to get in and out yeah and not rush it uh take a break and avoid hiking between

23:25

10 a.m and 4 P.M that's a big window yeah even if you are eating and drinking correctly you still need to avoid hiking

23:31

in direct sunlight during the hottest part of the day sun temperatures are uh 15 to 20 degrees hotter than posted

23:38

shade temperatures and keep in mind the farther into the canyon you go the hotter it gets

23:45

watch out for the four h's heat exhaustion heat stroke water intoxicationia

23:56

so um I'm gonna look that up I don't have the oh I don't have a voicemail hold up

24:02

I may have spelled it wrong I think it's got to be something hyponatremia I missed the P okay I believe like you

24:09

just look it up and see because otherwise I'm gonna see if the computer can say this one because that'll be really funny

24:15

I bet it is hypo but essentially what that's saying hyponatremia hyponatremia yeah it even

24:23

corrected it when I put it in wrong it's not something I've typically worried about but you can in a desert

24:29

environment think like all right I'm gonna over drink water to like prepare for this and you can actually hurt yourself by drinking too much water

24:35

again you know a given point so that's like that uh the Weedle the weed to win

24:41

hold your weed to win a wee lady who died oh yeah she from trying to win a Nintendo Wii yeah let's drink as much

24:47

water as you can and don't pee for a while and she actually uh diluted her body so much of nutrients that it ended

24:53

up killing her yeah dilutes like the salt in your body yeah so actually bringing along those packets are good the hydration packets that you put in

25:00

your water those are very good Gatorade powder mix yeah any of the powder mixes

25:05

um that have uh what are those called electrolytes electrolytes that's the word I'm looking

25:10

for hey uh watch your time plan on taking twice as long to hike up as it

25:16

took to hike down and I would even say even more than that if you're newer it's longer than twice as long if you know

25:21

what you're doing and you're pretty fit it can be twice as long and a little less allow a third of your time to

25:26

descend and two-thirds of your time to ascend as a courtesy give uphill hikers the right of way bring a small

25:33

lightweight flashlight in case you end up hiking in the dark uh mules have the right of way yeah so

25:39

if there's a mule get out of the way and uh they might make you go Cliffside

25:45

yeah uh because they don't want their mules to go Cliffside because they freak out and jump off the cliff so that's

25:50

gotta be careful uh overall difficulty according to all Trails Grand Cane national park has

25:56

suitable skill levels for everybody with 37 Trails listed 30 listed as uh 37 Trails listed as easy 30 listed as

26:03

moderate and 66 listed as hard so there is a trail for all types of people yeah

26:09

the easiest Trail is the 0.1 mile Walhalla Overlook a trail that is kid

26:14

friendly and wheelchair accessible it's probably right off the parking lot yeah the hardest Trail is the nanco weep

26:20

Trail this is how the NPS describes the most difficult named Trail in the park

26:25

with 11 miles of exposure and a trail that comes within inches of hundreds of

26:31

feet plunges Nan kawip tests the metal and skills of

26:36

backcountry hikers it has the highest drop of all the rim to rim trails at

26:42

5640 vertical feet and is suicidal to attempt in the Searing summer months

26:48

nancoeep is unmarked and Route finding skills often come in play it's rare to

26:53

see anyone else on the trail cell phones don't work GPS units are often blocked by the Candy Walls and help isn't

26:59

available Park Service describes the trail so do

27:05

not it's tough go on the nanco weep Trail I'll just say that first time

27:10

hiking baby just don't do it at all there's lots of other rim to rim hikes that won't kill you yeah so uh that's a

27:17

pretty uh good description of Grand Canyon National Park I'm going to jump right into our three cases here and I

27:24

wanted to um because two of these cases discuss suicide we don't we haven't really done

27:31

this before but I just want to make just a note here for anyone because a lot of people do listen to the show now so if

27:38

anyone you know like say right before the one that you're gonna do that covers it so they can skip if they want yeah I

27:45

mean uh the next well the first one uh doesn't have to deal with suicide but the the last two potentially could we

27:52

don't know okay but um so if you or anyone you know is you know in a suicidal crisis or emotional distress

27:58

you can dial 988 on your phone that call us the National Suicide and crisis Lifeline or visit

28:05

988lifeline.org uh they they staff it with people 24 hours a day seven days a

28:10

week in the US they're not a sponsor of the show um we're just putting that up there just

28:15

because you put in the notes yeah you know a lot of these cases we've you know we talk about theories and um mental

28:22

health comes up a lot um I don't know that it's necessarily a

28:28

theory and a lot you know the cause for a lot of these but it comes up so you know there's definitely a you know

28:33

Mental Health crisis across the country so if anyone listening needs help you call that that number on your phone uh

28:39

free of charge so with that said we are going to jump right into our first case and this case uh it's a gentleman well

28:47

is a child named Justin Richardson date of birth was June 6 1988. he went

28:54

missing July 2nd 2001 in it's technically not the Grand Canyon he

29:00

went missing in the National Forest which is just south but I included it in the Grand Canyon case

29:05

um he has never been found or remains found he was male age 13.

29:11

uh height was four feet ten inches weighed 100 100 pounds brown hair brown

29:16

eyes and he was last seen in a red Chicago Bulls basketball jersey and denim shorts

29:24

his um nickname was Little Man and at the time of his disappearance his hair

29:29

was shaved on the sides and long on the top so this is an interesting case uh it

29:37

starts out June 29th of 2001 Justin was last seen in the area of the national forest with three friends who were

29:44

between the ages of 18 and 21. the group of four had gone to the area to allegedly party in the woods where they

29:50

were to attain methamphetamine and get high other sources indicate that they had already been partying when they went to

29:57

the woods but it is widely at least 13 13 and like they're looking for meth yeah jeez so

30:05

that's insane yeah um it's so young so it's not sure they're not sure if they went into the

30:11

woods party or already been partying but it's widely agreed that they were under the influence of meth and most likely

30:18

alcohol at the time Justin lived with his father in

30:23

um I'm going to butcher this town name Tucson I don't know if Tucson no it's t-u-s-a-y-a-n

30:31

It's a Small Town located just two miles from the south entrance to Grand Canyon National Park

30:37

so Justin and let's see Joe's gonna look it up here if you're watching on YouTube

30:43

that's what Joe is doing Arizona Tucson not Tucson

30:49

to see um so it's very close to the park there's Kebab National Forest okay yeah

30:56

so that's the forest there see there's the national park sign yeah that's on Google so that's like right at the

31:03

entrance to the park it seems like yeah okay that I mean that's that's why I included it's technically not this one's

31:08

not easy the airport is bigger than the entire town look at that this is the

31:13

town yeah the runway is four times larger than the town yeah they said the town had a population like 500 people so

31:20

it seems like it's that must be a range outside of what I'm seeing here because yeah unless it's a commune look at

31:27

there's like yeah 30 buildings not much there holy cow so I guess that's why

31:33

they're doing drugs I don't know but so Justin and his three friends became separated while they were

31:39

in the woods and two of the friends got lost Justin and another friend went back to the town they're from and asked

31:45

another friend to help look for the missing pair in the meantime the two missing friends were located by Grand

31:51

Canyon Railway employees just south of town but Justin was not aware of this Justin and another of his friends

31:58

returned to the National Forest at a spot five miles from town and 15 miles from where the previously lost friends

32:04

had been found earlier there's really no indication of the

32:09

timeline of these events but his friend um I guess fell asleep at 9am

32:17

and he woke up at around 5 PM and Justin was gone when his friend awoke and could

32:23

not find Justin he hiked out of the area to a dirt road and hitched a ride back to town

32:28

none of the men um with Justin reported Justin missing Justin was reported missing by his

32:35

father on July 1st of 2001 and has not been heard from since Justin did have a history of running

32:42

away from home before and at the time investigators believed it was possible he had hitched a ride

32:49

out of the woods to try to run away again and he supposedly

32:54

um he supposedly knew the woods very well so by the time he had been missing uh two weeks an extensive search party

33:02

at that was about 150 strong began sweeping the area of the forest where Justin was last seen they had

33:08

helicopters search dogs both on foot and in vehicles after

33:13

interviewing the men with Justin the day he disappeared authorities at the time ruled out Foul Play although they

33:19

continued to track the purchase of interest in the case for more than 15 years which is interesting

33:25

so now fast forward to 2014. there is like nothing around this town it's

33:32

desolate like this is it and there's nothing yeah

33:38

this is the next major road yeah it's a freeway look how far away that is

33:44

yeah like I said fast forwarding to 2014 now

33:50

investigators stated that there was new evidence that Justin may had returned to the area of the now closed muikai Lodge

33:58

in attusion probably said all that wrong um

34:04

in an interview with Joe summer a fallen volunteer for the uh

34:10

County Sheriff's Office also a retired criminal investigator for the National Park Service he said he did not want to

34:16

share too many details due to the case still being open summer stated there has been no sightings no calls nothing can

34:22

indicate he's living somewhere else right now there's no evidence he's still alive and he's not considered a runaway

34:28

at this time let's see what Google says

34:35

investigators do believe now that Foul Play is possible in Justin's case and theorize he could have been killed in

34:41

the forest shortly after his disappearance when asked if he thinks somebody knows where Justin is summer

34:46

said I think so some people presumably the older friends Justin was with have been re-interviewed in the case an

34:53

initial suspect in the case one of those partaking in meth with Matthews with Justin is now dead beaten to death in

35:00

what appeared to be a case of mistaken identity Captain Terry Lawson who worked the case

35:06

at the time pointed out that it would have been very difficult for Justin to become lost for very long he had been in

35:12

the area several times before in his knowledge of the terrain helicopters constantly crisscross the skies above

35:18

the area Lawson said at the time Lawson said at the time and Justin would

35:24

have known he could follow them back to Tucson Lawson also said there were numerous

35:29

landmarks in the area and a local resident like Justin would have known where

35:35

um you know fences power lines dirt roads would have been as well as railroad tracks so law enforcement

35:41

thinks he you know if he you know passed out from drug use and then woke up he would have been able to find his way

35:46

back so I've never done meth but is it possible even if you know what you're doing normally on meth he could have

35:52

just well all the videos of people I see on on that drug are completely out of their minds I have a list of short-term

35:58

and long-term effects of meth use I'll get into that and then we'll go into theories oh right then so

36:05

um just a couple other notes on this case uh a couple sources stated that Justin

36:10

had a girlfriend in Chicago um and they theorized that maybe he left on his own accord that's very shady and

36:17

went to Chicago someone from Chicago yeah not to be trusted and he's 13. that

36:22

that's what makes us all just weird so he's 13 had a girlfriend in Chicago and he's from a town of 500 people yeah and

36:29

they said that you know maybe he was catfished or I'm thinking he was cats but we don't this is just speculation

36:34

and then they said um you know other theories on top of the effects of drugs mid-summer in that part

36:40

of Arizona can be extremely hellish the train around there is especially rugged uh it definitely is still possible that

36:46

he fell victim to the elements and his body is hidden away somewhere or um

36:51

you know his his friends were a part of it so before we get into theories here's because obviously I've never done meth

36:58

and you've never done math yep I don't know anyone that's done math so I've never really spent a lot of time thinking about it I don't think I know

37:04

anyone that's known it but um it's a pretty pretty hard drug based

37:10

on the um based on the videos I've seen yeah based on the short term and long-term

37:15

effects so these are the short-term effects that can happen just from using

37:20

meth a few times hyper excitability dilated pupils bizarre behavior increased body temperature erratic

37:27

heartbeat extreme irritability sustained periods without sleep loss of appetite and weight loss nausea vomiting Panic

37:33

psychosis and violent Behavior sounds like a baby on sugar yeah kind of I

37:40

guess and these are the long-term effects for people that have used uh meth for a long period of time Extreme

37:46

Weight Loss serious dental problems also known as Meth mouth decreased motor skills impaired brain function easily

37:54

distracted memory loss skin Source violent neurotic Behavior dramatic mood swings hallucinations

38:00

paranoia psychosis cardiovascular damage and structural changes to the brain so jump in right

38:07

into theories if he's hanging out with older guys that have been using meth for many years

38:12

I could easily see one of them just going crazy and killing them yeah and then they hide the body yeah I I think

38:20

um either that or he had a medical emergency and oh like overdose and then they got rid

38:26

of the body that or overdosed in an area that they just weren't able to find him yeah I took a nap and I woke up and he

38:34

was gone yeah that's very convenient I mean it's a small town where maybe they're all troublemakers they're just

38:40

like and you could see a medical emergency be if it's that hot and he's dehydrated from doing drugs for a whole

38:46

day yeah like your heart would just give out yeah um so it may be the dehydration caused

38:53

him to like we always say didn't think clearly yep wandering around maybe he

38:58

injured himself and um I think we don't know the character of the other

39:04

people he was with but I think law enforcement they're using meth so there's one indicator of the character

39:09

that we plays with yeah so long when I was a little kid doing drugs the 13th that's that's the character that people

39:15

were talking about that's a good point yeah they're they're zero characters zero negative character if that's

39:20

possible it is possible it's if you're an adult or an older kid and you are

39:26

giving meth to a new teenager you're a piece of trash and you have zero negative character it's bad enough if

39:32

you're you know doing meth with other people but if you're giving it to a child yeah

39:38

um that's a a new kind of scumbag yep just pure garbage I think in this one I

39:44

agree with law enforcement that uh probably Foul Play had something to do with it because psychosis that means you

39:52

went crazy yeah so he could someone could have hallucinated and saw like a creature coming at him and threw a rock

39:59

at his head and then came to and like oh crap what do we do yeah and you're still

40:05

not going to be thinking clearly so I think sadly um Foul Play came into this one so no I I'm

40:13

gonna agree with you on that one I think it sounds like Foul Play all right moving on to our next case

40:19

um the gentleman of this case is Drake Kramer he was born in September 30th of

40:25

1993. he went missing on January 31st of 2015. uh he has not been found his

40:32

remains have not been found he was male age 21. he was five foot six to five

40:37

foot eight 135 to 145 pounds yet brown hair blue eyes

40:43

he was last seen in a gray green sweatshirt blue jeans a dark colored bandana or a dark colored baseball cap

40:50

with a pattern and a black Adidas shoes his father described him as a Frugal

40:56

hard worker and a good student who loved nature um medical issues it was noted in all

41:03

the case research I did that he may have been suicidal at the time of his disappearance did they explain why they

41:09

did not okay and the family was well we'll get into that but family didn't see it coming so he's from he's from San

41:17

Antonio Texas he was enrolled at the University of Texas studying geology and at the time of his disappearance he

41:24

worked at a local Lowe's according to family he was very experienced in the outdoors according to

41:30

his father I obviously experiencing outdoors I think is like

41:36

wisdom it comes with time yeah I don't know how experienced a 21 year old could

41:42

be at it I think yeah I wouldn't I mean I had been seriously hiking and camping

41:48

for five years and I was not experienced at 21. so I mean whatever I I was just thinking of that

41:54

you know experience I think it experience comes from doing yeah and how much hiking are you able to do yeah

42:01

making little mistakes and learning yeah you know getting lost ran out of water stuff like that

42:07

all the things we tell you not to do is because we've probably done that yeah uh experience in this location we're unsure

42:13

on the specific location he was at but he had visited the park several times in the past so he he knew Grand Canyon

42:19

National Park I mean it's huge so who knows to what extent uh so story starts

42:26

uh January 31st 2015. it's kind of a range here to Sunday February 1st of

42:31

2015. after a one night stay at the national parks Bright Angel Lodge Kramer checked out February 1st and was

42:38

reported missing the next day by a family member according to a statement from the National Park Service

42:44

the family was surprised he had driven he had driven to California first and then on to the canyon the last they saw

42:51

him was on January 29th when they went to see the film American Sniper and his

42:56

family reported that he was in good spirits and they also said it was very unlike him to travel to places like the Grand

43:03

Canyon alone but he had been to the area two or three times before however like we said earlier they they claimed he was

43:10

a very experienced Outdoorsman so you're looking at Bright Angel Lodge yeah it's right on the rim that's probably

43:16

beautiful I'm gonna look up some pictures that's the south rim right uh uh I believe so

43:22

I believe it's the south rim uh it's on the South Side so yeah yeah there you go

43:28

North is that way so I assume it is it's now uh February 2nd of 2015. Monday some pictures out

43:35

there this is the day he was reported missing so on Monday a series of concerning text messages

43:41

were sent to the family which included one where Kramer wrote loved everybody

43:46

uh and seti had to give his body to Mother Earth his this is what his father

43:52

said the family was surprised by the tax you wrote that on a note or a text text message oh geez

43:59

um I can't imagine getting that text as a parent yeah so the missing uh missing persons report

44:05

sparked a hasty search uh in the Park's heavily traveled south rim tourist area

44:11

where authorities found Kramer's car at the lodge where he'd stayed uh since that time uh shedlowski which is a

44:18

spokesperson for the park said Park person off of scoured dozens of Miles along the rim and wooded areas repelled

44:24

over the edge and enlisted a helicopter for aerial supervision uh he goes honest she goes on to say as

44:31

of late yesterday uh afternoon and early evening after six days a very intensive

44:36

searching along the south rim the decision was made to move from what we call a very active search to a very

44:42

limited continuous search she goes on to say we no longer have teams out on the rim working in a

44:48

methodical system Crews when they're on the area will continue to search but it

44:53

will not be the same search effort that was pre that previously occurred for the past six days and this is if this the

44:59

first episode you've listened to our show this is very common in searches at some point they have to cut it back yeah

45:04

and but they will continue to do training exercises in areas where people have gone missing yeah they know where

45:11

all the people did go so they always know to keep a lookout for that type of stuff that looks like a really cool Lodge yeah I would totally go to this

45:18

yeah that's really awesome that's cool um so this spokesperson continues to say

45:24

while the weather with daytime temperatures in the 60s has been good the terrain Bean search she adds the

45:31

train being searched flat on top of the rim but rocking unstable just off the ridge can be challenging there's trees

45:37

down there there's shrubs there's rocks the canyon walls are often shaded depending on the time of day it's just a

45:43

real mix of terrain which does not which does make it difficult to work in uh it's unknown what Kramer uh was

45:52

wearing when last seen I know we had a description but they're not sure on what he was wearing asked if there's any

45:59

report he might have left the park um the park officials had no additional

46:04

information on what if if he was in the park all they know his car was found there so

46:12

um the biggest question on this case is was the text foreshadowing suicide or

46:19

did he just text like a lot of times when we go hike and be like I can't wait to get off the grid for a week yeah but

46:26

reread the the text again so and that is like confirmed that's

46:31

exactly what the text was word for word yeah his father confirmed it he said um he loved everybody and wanted to give

46:37

his body back to Mother Earth that sounds like

46:43

what we think it might be in yeah I could I could imagine like if I got that text as a parent

46:49

I would probably freak out and think of every other thing it probably could be I mean it's got to be in context if you're if the that person talks like that all

46:56

the time like that wouldn't be surprising like if they're kind of like

47:02

you know into you know I don't know what I'm trying to say here but and I know we've talked

47:08

about this in other episodes of suicide but the big thing that we always say and it's from what I've heard and just even

47:13

working at the fire department and the ambulance is the people who actually do it never show signs of it yeah and

47:20

that's not all the time but it's like most the time it's like a common theme is if there's someone actively showing

47:27

signs that's a cry for help yeah and the people who go and commit almost I I always hear it's like we had

47:33

no idea we didn't know we didn't know but they but they end up yeah they follow a pattern where they'll give away

47:39

personal belongings or they'll leave a note yeah like they always like that text that that to me like because the

47:45

family was like we just saw American Sniper he was in good spirits they had no idea like he was potentially suicidal

47:53

yeah um so uh oh that's terrible obviously

47:59

um I think the the theory in this one and this is what everyone everything I

48:05

read was even the park services basically thinks it was a suicide i i as

48:11

soon as you said the text that I'm like okay yeah that to me is the the note that's his note so uh another that's

48:17

very sad sad story hopefully even though it was a suicide hopefully someday the family will get closure and his remains

48:23

will be found yeah um we always hope for that in these cases it's not the great outcome but it's better than better than just just

48:30

not knowing not knowing because at least if the remains are found they they know it's done yep like if no remains are

48:36

found you're the back your head you're always kind of wondering like as a parent I'm alive yeah it's I I've been

48:42

irrational about my kids yeah so it's very easy for us not related to the Golic it's clearly this but it's like a

48:47

father or mother that's dealing with it you like you'd almost always have to keep the Hope out that it's not that and

48:52

you you know you might find sadly if the remains are found they might be able to do some kind of forensic analysis and

49:00

determine Maybe it wasn't a suicide yeah which I mean it

49:05

sounds terrible to say but uh at the end of the day you just want closure sure I don't want to take myself into a hole

49:10

here yeah don't don't do that so uh moving on to our final case people who

49:16

want us to get to the point on cases are gonna love this series I know all right like you did three of them in like 20

49:23

minutes but then the people that say we spend too much time talking about location are gonna hate it because it was like 30 minutes yeah well that was

49:30

the same length but we were nailed we did a location one time for three cases three cases where they're getting it

49:35

more efficient yep we're extending we're extending a olive branch yeah to the

49:41

it's too long but I keep listening yeah it's for the tick tock generation now we're gonna get in trouble for taking

49:46

time to talk about it I know uh all right third case

49:51

so this gentleman's name is Morgan Heimer um 22 years old he went missing on June

49:58

2nd of 2015 so same year uh no remains have been found he was male uh he was six feet tall 175 pounds he

50:07

had blonde hair blue eyes he was last seen wearing a maroon Nike hat blue plaid long sleeve shirt bright colored

50:13

shorts and a dark colored astral PFD which um for those of you who are not boaters

50:19

that's a personal flotation device otherwise known as a life jacket all right

50:24

um he was a professionally trained River guide working for the tour West rafting company he was from Cody Wyoming and he

50:32

was enrolled in the University of Wyoming studying English uh he was a very experienced Outdoorsman

50:38

and River guide and was an excellent swimmer and experience in this location uh

50:45

extensive because he was a professionally trained River guide for this area

50:50

so this this case starts off on Tuesday June 2nd 2015.

50:57

uh 4 P.M Morgan was last seen at approximately 4 pm around River mile 213

51:04

near pumpkin Springs in Grand Canyon National Park Morgan said something to the lead guide

51:10

about taking some time off that afternoon the lead guide walked away from the cliff to talk to a client and

51:16

when he looked back Morgan was gone uh so it's another one of those we've

51:21

covered several cases now where allegedly the last person to see him was

51:28

right next to the person looked away for a second then they're gone so yeah

51:33

that's crazy um so lost my spot here apologize I'm looking

51:40

at the screen that's why yeah I'm just pulling up pumpkin Springs because I'm trying to get an idea of where it is so pumpkin Springs is right there yep and

51:48

can you look up River mile 213 I tried that's not show up yeah

51:53

so do you see like a cliff or anything oh like overlooking whatever it says it's near pumpkin Springs

52:01

what is what river is that is that a river uh it's got to be a Colorado

52:07

this is not not a river Rio Grande Rio Grande

52:13

um are there any other rivers nearby there I mean yeah well I was trying to figure

52:21

out which river they were on yeah I'll keep looking I'll let you know if I find it okay it went pretty far because Grand

52:26

Canyon National Park is there so I might be in the wrong pumpkin Springs yeah it's in Grand Canyon National Park

52:33

are you this is Apache National Forest that's why because Grand Canyon National Parks up here so there might be like uh

52:41

that's a hot spring in Arizona so I don't I don't know well I'll look it up either way you keep going I'll figure it

52:47

out like you said you know the guide one of the other guides was standing on the cliff right next to Morgan and went to

52:54

go talk to a customer and when he came back was gone and never seen again another friend a friend recalled that

53:03

now this contradicts the official statement from MPS so I don't know how much stock we're going to put in this

53:09

but this was a friend of Morgans who said this a member of the group remembers him standing next to the party

53:14

during a campfire and the next minute he was gone so the group was on a six was

53:21

on day six of an eight day trip so Tuesday June 2nd now 2015. he was

53:27

reported missing at 7 26 p.m on the same day by a member of the river trip

53:32

following a swim in the river by the group after he failed to turn up for dinner Searchers said at the time he

53:38

definitely has the skills and ability to perform the job and be a person we have a high likelihood to find

53:45

oh you found uh well is this what was this guide company because I just pulled tour West okay so this is not the same

53:51

one but this is mile 213. they said it's a great place for cliff diving okay yeah swimming some of the comments online

53:57

talked about the spot that Morgan was last seen is a popular spot for people to cliff dive yes it's spring water

54:08

okay I'll keep I'll keep trying to find it here okay so Searchers at the time

54:13

thought they had a high likelihood of finding him just because of his skill level so it is now uh June 5th of 2015.

54:23

and uh the search mission from by the MPS was

54:29

ongoing Park Rangers and search and rescue teams extensively searched the river between miles 211 and 225 and on

54:36

land stretching from River mile 211 to 215 around pumpkin Springs they then

54:42

extended the search area to Diamond Creek 12 miles west of pumpkin Springs fellow employees of the tour West Guide

54:50

Service clients on the river and other River Outfitters and their clients were interviewed

54:55

uh now it's June 8th of 2015. we have a statement from the MPS

55:01

they wrote with no additional Clues to guide search efforts on land or water the search will be scaled back to a

55:07

continuous but limited mode in which Rangers and Pilots will continue to search for Clues

55:14

um when in the area in addition Flyers with Morgan's picture and description remain posted at various south rim

55:20

locations and all launching River trips will be briefed on searching for him uh just some additional notes the FBI

55:28

and Park Service interviewed his family friends and acquaintances for any

55:33

information about his disappearance and well-being he checked out as a mentally

55:38

healthy individual in the opinion of the investigators so interesting all

55:45

right so I haven't found diamond Creek but here's diamond or pumpkin Springs but here's Diamond Creek it says 12 miles west so that's right here okay so

55:52

that was a different pumpkin Springs because that was like down here yeah so it's around this area yeah it's got to be

56:00

near a river somewhere right this is right here this is the river okay this is in

56:06

the canyon yeah so yeah that other place is a different point so Theory so basically this guy was standing you know

56:13

they they stopped for the day it's in the afternoon he was standing on a cliff overlooking the river talking to

56:20

one of the other guides and there was no indication that he was in any kind of mental distress

56:26

the FBI and Park Service investigators interviewed everyone from his family and

56:31

life and came to the conclusion obviously this isn't Ironclad but came

56:36

to the conclusion that he was mentally sound and not you know not someone who

56:42

would be suspected of suicide so you know what happened to Morgan so

56:49

despite the extensive Six-Day search he was never seen again and no evidence was

56:54

ever found um you know quite oh he was saying it was the Colorado River that he was on

57:00

yeah here's Colorado River so so you found it was yeah right this area yeah Diamond Creek Beach

57:06

so yeah it's like right around here so people you know what happened did he accidentally fall into the river uh was

57:14

he drowned and caught you know at a strainer Point um did he commit suicide he was wearing

57:21

the life jacket yeah when he was last seen he had life checking on interesting which and someone online said the

57:27

Colorado River at this section doesn't move very fast so if someone fell in it's not like a you would be like

57:34

just swept away you would like slowly float down the river okay based on this

57:40

comment I have not been there in person so I can't verify that but I I'm assuming if it's an area where

57:45

people cliff dive it's probably a pretty slow moving current yeah you're not gonna be jumping into Rapids yeah

57:51

so um you know did he suffer a sudden medical emergency and fall off the cliff

57:57

so you know you've been working all day it's hot did you have a heat stroke was he dehydrated possibility

58:05

um did he have an accident was he you know taking a pee to be blunt yeah and

58:11

slipped and fell or like fell and had a head injury yeah so like and then fell

58:16

into the water yeah like that knocked him out so I think what makes this last

58:22

case so strange is it's another one of those where someone was right next to him looked away for a few minutes and

58:29

then he was gone I think what is less mysterious is that he was on a cliff

58:36

overlooking a river so so did I talk about what happened uh

58:43

when we were up in Apostle Islands no on the show I had an experience where that kind of

58:50

happened oh really yeah I was with my family we were up in the Apostle Islands area uh pass Island State Park

58:57

oh no in Wisconsin Wisconsin yeah um remember we went camping with Jack did

59:04

you come with us all up there okay um it's it's a long drive but we went to the state park and there's this area

59:10

called the Eagles Nest it's a big rock outcropping where you can go jump off into the lake so we had planned on all

59:17

me and my kids we had life jackets we go past our County oh yeah it's to the top okay I've been up there but not camping

59:24

yeah so um we were there and we are coming up and the water was crazy

59:30

treacherous so we're like okay we can't swim in this there was a a dad and a son that were swimming in it okay and right

59:37

as we walked up um the dad had just climbed out and then we didn't notice it first because we

59:43

were just you know when you go into rock out croppings it's wavy it's just cool to look at the water and stuff and you know we spent half time keeping our kids

59:49

away from the edge for obvious reasons yeah um and I saw the guy jump off

59:55

and then we were just walking around and then some lady who was there too came up and was like he hasn't come up yet yeah

1:00:01

and so like he jumped just to like like he he jumped off already to go swimming oh and then he climbed up and he was

1:00:08

jumping off again yeah and it just didn't come up he did not come up yeah and so I got my kids like away yeah and

1:00:15

he had a son who was older like 15 16 was there and like kind of like like a

1:00:21

thousand yard stare like not processing it uh but we ended up getting like fire department everything never found him

1:00:26

that took three days to find his body oh wow and like it was right there so what

1:00:31

I was doing is I got my kids out there I had my son run to the front uh to alert the authorities because we had no cell

1:00:37

signal and I I was just looking around to see like we knew exactly where he

1:00:42

went yeah and it was super wavy could not find the fire department came to have a life jacket on uh no no up and

1:00:49

down the shore everything just in in an instant yeah and like I'd watch him jump in and was walking around and this other

1:00:54

lady saw it so it totally can happen that quick and it like is almost jarring how it's just

1:01:00

like oh wow he was just there and like you can't process it so it could have been I I theorized on that

1:01:07

one because the waves were hitting the rock so hard if he jumped in and hit his head and got knocked out yep and the waves are so tumultuous it like could

1:01:14

keep you under from the force yeah so if he hit his head and went under and got like you said caught a strainer point and anything like it could just be that

1:01:21

but he had a life jacket on I yeah I mean if if you floated Downstream maybe

1:01:27

it's slow no one sees you you're gone then you hit White Water yeah you get trapped underneath I mean you want

1:01:32

vortexes or something like he wasn't reported so say he fell into the river at four

1:01:38

roughly four he wasn't reported missing until eight so four hours of floating

1:01:43

down the river yeah going to areas that are rapid the question is stuck there you know how quick is the current like

1:01:50

how many miles would you float yeah down the river in four hours and you would think that search and

1:01:57

rescue would know that so I'm I would assume when they said they searched mile

1:02:02

marker 225 on the river they know how fast the current is yeah

1:02:07

they're not just randomly they're not just picking a mile marker they probably all right this amount of time has passed

1:02:14

let's search this far down the river um but

1:02:19

I mean maybe he took his life jacket off before it jumped maybe yeah like they fell with it and then the life jacket

1:02:26

floated away from him down like if it wasn't buckled on maybe yeah maybe he had unbuckled or maybe he had just taken

1:02:33

it off like I am done for the day I'm taking it off and then he went to go to the bathroom and slipped and fell in him

1:02:38

and the life jacket fall in but then he's not wearing it yeah and then he gets so this is I mean it doesn't show

1:02:46

much that is not white water no this is where people jump off and swim yeah so that is very kind of right where he

1:02:52

would have been standing yeah so that's like not a swift current at all now granted if it's raining or whatever can

1:02:58

I'm sure it can change speeds but like you said if it's a place where people jump off and go swimming yeah

1:03:04

it's probably usually not a strong current in that location my guess is I'm

1:03:09

gonna rule out suicide only because his the investigators didn't think

1:03:15

obviously it's still a possibility but yeah I think what maybe happened is he was tired he went up to the ledge to

1:03:23

maybe go to the bathroom and slipped hit his head his life jacket maybe wasn't we don't

1:03:29

know if it was buckled or not or maybe he had taken it off because he's done for the day and then fell in yeah and

1:03:35

then he got stuck you know went down the river and a bit and then got stuck in one of those strainer points

1:03:42

um and researchers didn't find him I'm I'm with you and I'm gonna say freak accident yeah freak accident

1:03:48

um and just unfortunately that's how it ended yeah so uh that were that's the three cases

1:03:55

that I I had not you know sorry for anyone listening not very uh cheerful cases this week I mean are they ever

1:04:02

really cheerful the one where the husband or the guy and the girlfriend were were found was a positive so the

1:04:09

one the one one of like 70 or whatever or on 78. so 77 of the 78 are not so uh

1:04:16

let us know in the comments yeah we want to hear your theories your theories and if you like these cases that we cover a

1:04:24

couple you know cases with a little less information I think we sprinkle them in there we'll be good yeah we'll sprinkle them in we'll always sprinkle them in oh

1:04:31

uh oh we're recording a very fun and interesting patreon episode next on the

1:04:37

strange stuff that's been in the sky lately oh yeah so it's gonna be a fun it's gonna be a fun conspiracy episode

1:04:43

episode only for paid subscribers so if you want to hear that you have to go to work absolutely

1:04:49

thank you little little probably I'll probably

1:04:54

have to mute that because that'll be copyright it'll be uh it'll be like do you think they'll pick up like the one second whistle maybe we'll see they're

1:05:01

pretty good at we'll see getting copyright strikes all right thanks again for tuning in to

1:05:07

our show we appreciate all of you for listening and sharing locations unknown with your friends and family be sure to

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like and follow us on Facebook Instagram Twitter YouTube all the places where you find uh confiner videos in each episode

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on YouTube as well also if you'd like to support the show monetarily please visit our website or Facebook store to buy

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some cool swag Additionally you can subscribe to our patreon account on YouTube uh and also on YouTube and Al

1:05:33

also now on Apple where you can do the extra and you can get that episode that we're talking about

1:05:38

um I keep wanting to call it patreon episodes it's paid subscriber episode subscriber episodes yeah if you want to

1:05:43

hear crazy conspiracy theories and other theories that were conspiracy theories that became true because they're

1:05:49

unclassified you are going to want to get a patreon or subscriber subscription and listen to that show yes and lastly

1:05:56

when enjoying the beauty of nature whether backpacking camping or simply taking a walk always remember to leave

1:06:03

no Trace thanks and we will see you all next time

1:06:09

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